SolarTimes editor Sandy LeonVest (www.solartimes.org) engages in a profoundly trivial conversation with poet, lyricist, philosopher and political observer Phil Rockstroh about the Occupy Wall Street protests; (what Naomi Klein calls) the "capitalization of hope;" the ways in which we internalize corporate values, and how shame keeps us from embracing our rage at having been sucked in by the corporate PR machine. They also toy with the concepts of never having found "the swans," disaster capitalism, the nature of dissent and the importance of creativity in an increasingly dogmatic political climate.

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