Pure Imagination - 12/09/10

On this episode of Pure Imagination, we had Elizabeth Forel, the president of the coalition to ban horse-drawn carriages, in-studio to talk about the recent "accidents" in NYC. Kari Bagnoll spoke about her monkey sanctuary in Florida. Music by exclusively animal-themed bands! Yippee!

Download this episode (right click and save)

Comments

[Izzy]

"Pure Imagination" and Elizabeth Forel go hand in hand, since she is a compulsive liar, has delusions, and manipulates gullible people.

[Carriage Horse Lover]

How disappointing that a media outlet would allow someone like Ms. E. Forel to make statements that are NOT based on facts and to denegrate the hard working carriage horse owners and drivers. The NYC Central Park carriage rides are an iconic tradition. I can personally attest that it was one such ride that I took as a five-your-old visitor to NYC more than 50 yars ago that inspired a life-long love of horses.

As a result of my NYC carriage horse ride, I pestered my parents incessantly for a horse. I was rewarded by being allowed to take riding lessions and later to be able to show a leased horse. Eventually I was able to afford my own horse.

As an adult I rode, drove, showed, bred and trained horses for many years. I cannot imagine my life without horses. The NYC carriage horse are often the first, and for many, the only up-close contact they will ever have with horses. NYC will be all the poorer, and not just monetarily, if the carriage horses are banned. Shame on MS. Forel. I would hope that your station would grant equal time for someone from the pro-carriage horse advocates to present their side of wht has been turned into a hugh controversy, but shouldn't be.

[Horse of a different color]

Too bad there are so many uneducated people out there who don't get it that carriage horse rides in Central Park just doesn't cut it anymore. We know now of the abuse these horses continue to endure. It has to stop. Congrats to people like Ms. Forel for having the courage and taking the time to stop this practice. And Carriage Horse Lover should have taken spelling 'lessons' instead of riding ones.

[Ray Olsz]

Whatever happened to compassion? When you see these poor horses drag their carriages on a hot Summer day or the cold of Winter you have to be made of stone not to care. The drivers are bullies just looking to make a buck. The Mayor feels that he is doing such a great job in his office that he forced (bought) his re-election by going independent. How lucky we are to have ANOTHER politician that knows better than the people they represent. Bloomberg – your days are numbered. Go back to the private sector where you belong. With all of the issues currently taking place in the City (illegal protests), it’s becomes obvious that Bloomberg is still playing politics. Also, let’s not forget the current Speaker of the City Council (Christine Quinn), who is more concerned about her upcoming run for Mayor than for these poor creatures. Coincidentally, all four stables are in her district. "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." “…the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to the protection by man from the cruelty of man." Mohandas Gandhi

[MaryNYC]

I, too, grew up around horses and still am fortunate to be able to get time with them when I visit friends and family in western Maryland. That is why it is so shocking to see these horses stuck between the shafts in New York City, looking forlorn, without water, and often with dental problems and borderline body condition scores. Eating off the ground. It is not any good way for children to see horses, especially in light of the frequency of accidents. A blight on the city.

[daria]

Dear carriage horse lover Izzy,
If you love the carriage horses so much. You should realize the drivers are not working as hard as these horses work. They sit on the seat and flick a wrist, pull at the reigns. Reins that are attached to the horses body and mouth. Is, that such a nice way to love a horse? As a child you pestered your parents for a horse. But as an adult you pester animal lovers, that volunteer there extra time from full time day jobs, to try and help these horses that have been pummeled by a franchise that continues to disregard there well being. I agree with you that horses if properly cared and protected for can introduce people to the absolute beauty, grace, strength of this animal. But it's more important to ensure that they are not being Exploited. Which Clearly They Are when they drop dead on 54th street (Charlie, october 2011). It does not take a compassionate heart to see the injustice of horses sandwiched in traffic, behind sirens, honking horns, gridlock, pedestrians, busses, and etc.... This is NYC... These are streets of Nyc, Nyc traffic will only get more congested. If you truly love the animal, start pestering for real legislation that will keep this animal protected. And once you do that you will discover that all the new legislation introduced, turns into lurid fantasy, and in effect nothing really happens. This Is Why, there are so many people crying out for someone to surpass this and help these animals. Get informed. You clearly are on the other side. If you loved horses you would not side with the man that loads the carriage, with 4, 200 pound tourists from Nebraska. Elizabeth Forel has the courage and heart to stand up for this injustice, so wrapped and protected by the powers that be. I love the iconic tradition, if it were enforced properly. If the horses had pasture to graze as they carry tourists and see it out of there peripheral vision, but never ever, ever step one hoof onto it. If there stables were located in the park, or just on it's outskirts. If they weren't forced to work in MIDTOWN!! But they make up to 2 mile hike to the park to work a 9 hour shift, and 2 miles back. The park won't even fill there water troughs, they must carry it themselves in buckets.... You think NYC treats it's carriage horses good? Why is this industry largely left to it's own devices, monitored by a reluctant ASPCA that has gone on record to say they don't support this industry. Do you really love horses?? Really?? Because I'm not convinced you do.

[Nina Natelson]

Thank God for caring people like Elizabeth and for her organization which exposes the cruelties to these sensitive animals. Most people see only the "glamour" of a carriage ride, not the suffering of the animals and the abuse to which they are subjected. The more we become aware of the consequences of our choices, the more we can choose to act in a way that will lead to a more compassionate world.

[Just say Nay]

I was holding a sign yesterday to spread the word about these victims with no voice. A beautiful horse came up to me and stared at me with sad eyes... then stared at the sign I was holding as if to say "thank you." As the tourists read our signs, I saw the look of surprise, sadness & horror in their faces not having been aware of what these carriage horses go through...especially the children and teenagers. I watched a mother change her mind and leave the line she was on with her entire family. There are many, many other wonderful things to do if you are a tourist in this great city. I praise Elizabeth for her work and plan to be out there again very soon.

[Rina Deych, RN]

Kudos to Ms. Forel for her compassion, dedication, and tenacity. This abusive, archaic industry should have been banned decades ago. Enough is enough. The horse-drawn carriage industry MUST be banned, period.

[Donny Moss]

How many more horses have to collapse, die, get hit by cars or spook before NYC takes horse-and-buggies off of the most congested city streets in the country? It's time NYC took the lead from London, Paris, Toronto, Beijing and many other cities around the world that have banned this archaic trade.

[Tess]

The carriage horse industry is obviously inhumane. All you have to do is look at the way the carriage horses stand with their heads hanging, forlorn and with a sense of hopelessness. Compare this with pictures you've seen (or if you are able to see them in person) of horses that are outside grazing, rolling around on the ground to scratch their backs, and running around with their companion horses. I think that you will see a distinct difference, if you're being honest with yourself, and care about animals. Of course, if you think that animals are only put on Earth to be used and abused by humans, then you won't care.

This year, a number of horses have collapsed on the street, or have spooked and run into traffic. We only know this because caring people have taken pictures and videos, and have reported the incidents. Every year, a large number of carriage horses disappear off the ranks, and no one knows where they go. How many of them were accident victims that were not photographed or videotaped by the public, and therefore not reported?

LIving in a tiny stall inside a building on an upper floor, being walked down a ramp and hitched to a carriage, walking through congested city traffic to Central Park, pulling a carriage full of people for nine hours, then going back to the stable to repeat the whole thing the next day is not a life that anyone would want. For anyone to think that this is an acceptable way to treat animals is appalling.

[Carriage Horse Lover]

Carriage horses have NOT been banned in London, Paris, Toronto and Beijing. Donny Moss has been reminded of this FACT time and time again when he has posted this LIE on other comment threads. And a horse-drawn carriage is a horse-drawn carriage whether it awaits passengers on the street or waits to be booked and called out to a specific pick-up point. A hired horse-drawn carriage is a hired-horse drawn carriage.

Horse-drawn carriages for hire are legal and available in London, Paris, Toronto, Beijing, San Antonio, Dallas, Cape May, Chicago, Minneapolis, Houston, Galveztown, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Mobile, Savanah, Charleston, St. Augistine, Los Angeles, Boston, Philadelphia, New York City, Albany, Saratoga and . . .

I could list even more cities and towns, but I think I've made my point. The radical animal rights activits like Forel and Moss WANT to believe that carriage driving is cruel and that carriage horses are abuse. And they WANT to convince everyone else that they are correct. TAHT is simply not the TRUTH- and I believe they know it but have worked so hard and sacrificed so much for their belief that they simply cannot let it go.

I run a livery and own a carriage and a carriage horse. My horse is my single most valuable part of the livery. It is the same for most carriage horse owners. A good carriage horse is worth all the worry, and care he or she receives. Without a reliable carriage horse, there is no livery. Carriages are equipment that can be replaced, but our horses are our partners and companions.

Remember where ever the carriage horse goes and whatever the weather, WE are out there with them the whole time. Only a fool would abuse his or her carriage horse. Are there some fools in this business?- Sure- the carriage trade is no different from any other profession or trade. But they don't last long. Working with horses that can easily weigh almost a ton is a calling that is born of a desire to be around horses and in their company.

Besides, NYC has regulations and ordinances and three different agencies that oversee the carriage horse owners and drivers to see that the rules are followed. The NYC carriage horses are valued partners in the carriage trade. they work only 9 hours out of 24. They have secure and safe stables with comfortable stalls and plenty of food and water. Some horses even eat while waiting for passengers as well.

Please visit StopLiesSeeTruth on Youtube to learn the truth about the "Lives of the Carriage Horses."

[Parks are Zoos for Trees]

Hey, this is one of the people that behind the scenes for this show. If you are in favor of the horse carriage industry then PLEASE leave your email.

I noticed that those people went anonymous

If you are IN FAVOR of the horse carriage industry then email

"pure imagination radio gmail.com